Tuesday, October 19, 2010

Potential Saviour?

I don't understand why there are SO MANY professing Christians who call Jesus "Saviour", yet only believe Jesus came to make salvation "possible". Possible for all but certain for none. They should say " Jesus is 'potential saviour' and 'potential Lord' "

Christian.... understand Jesus IS Saviour. He actually did save people on the cross.

15 comments:

Amadea said...

Jesus did save all ... but all do do not accept that salvation. God has done everything possible for us to come to Him, but we still must make the connection. As a parent, I love my children so much it hurts sometimes. Yet, there is nothing I can do to make them love me back. That has to be their choice. It is the same with God and with Salvation. Unless you confess your sins (take them to the cross) and accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, there is nothing God can do to bring you home. It is YOUR choice, dear one.

Beyond Zaphon said...

Amadea

Thank you for your thoughtful comment on my blog. I don't see much traffic! Humans do have a choice and we will always choose what we want. I know outside of new birth from the Lord I would not have choose Christ. When God caused me to be born again(Jn 1:13) He changed my taste buds as it were.

My friend we likely differ in that you think you caused yourself to be born again as a result of your faith; and I know I have a faith as a result of being born again. I had nothing to do with my physical birth (how could I) and I have nothing to do with my spiritual birth.(how could I being "dead in my sins", Eph 2:1, "being at emnity against God" Rom 8:7,

I am not trusting in a "decision" I made which would give me reason to boast over the one who does not make the choice, rather I am trusting in the cross where Christ actually saved me.

If you believe the gospel I welcome you and your comments as from a brother or sister in Christ. Cheers and godspeed on our journey of growing in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Ambassador of Knowledge said...

Possible? explain please. Do you mean that people believe that Jesus only made it possible for us to be saved?

Doesn't our faith lead us into a relationship with Jesus and becoming born again or was it becoming born again that gave us faith?

You surely have me thinking this morning. But, I've needed some meat to chew on lately.

It amazes I get more interaction on a deeper level online than I do face to face with a person, except for with my husband. Most people shy away from deeper level conversations around me for some reason.

What you say about not trusting a decision you made makes sense because I thought I was saved (what ever that truly means) when I was 12. Then I went through the process of rededicating (what ever that truly means) my life to Christ. But it wasn't until Nov of 2002 that I truly became born again. In my previous experiences nothing really changed in my life, but that November wow I could tell I was born again and I haven't been the same since. I hunger for God and His truth and not some watered down human version of it.

I hope you and Julie are wonderful.

Blessings,

Nuala

Beyond Zaphon said...

@ Nuala... it is truly good to hear from you again. You ask intelligent and deep questions! The theological term for the question you asked is "ordus salutous"..or order of salvation.

The Bible teaches being born again precedes faith. A common error among today's christians is that they think they are "born again" as a reward for their faith. It is taught people must of their own will choose to believe and then God will save them.

The bible teaches in Jn 1:13 "who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the WILL OF MAN, but of God."

1 Pet 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead"

On the cross Christ suffered the wrath of God for His elect. He paid the price for sin. Once a debt has been paid it can't be asked for again. Jesus did not suffer the debt for someone and that person then suffer the penalty himself.

Many churches pronounce someone saved if they recite some superstitious Roman Road prayer. When that person grows up and acts like and loves "the world" the church just says "well they are back slidden'" I would say "no! they likely never believed in the first place!"

You see the same God who supernaturally causes one to be born again, will supernaturally cause them to be sanctified (made holy) Am I saying Christians don't sin? No!!!! I am saying they WILL be changing, they WILL be repenting and they WILL be believing.

Christ has paid the price for their sin...they were saved, are being saved and can't help but be saved in the future. Christ finished the job. Praise God! I love Him because He first loved me!

I know this opens a whole host of questions which I welcome. Please ask and be not afraid you will offend me.

People are saved by believing the Gospel, which is Christ died for sinners, was buried and was raised from the dead. They don't need to understand where this faith came from to be saved.

I will end by saying read and meditate on

Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -but read in your bible not on my post.

on a lighter note this song sums up what I just said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ_jFO2VzRQ

Beyond Zaphon said...
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nualapthatsme said...

All I can do is laugh right now because I just typed a response and asked more questions. Here I go again.

Thank you for being a willing vessel to share God's TRUTH, not your version of truth.

Questions:

1) why do people feel they have to say the "sinners prayer"? Shouldn't it be between God and the individual? Others can be supportive in prayer, but shouldn't be telling them what to prayer right?

I don't feel comfortable being in a service when the "sinner's prayer" is said. That is usually when I head out. You know exactly when it is coming. They cue the music and then ask everyone to bow their heads and close their eyes.

2) Isn't it true that the only way these truths can be revealed to someone one is through God? For example, when you read your Bible did God reveal these truths to you?

Which leads me to questions 3) I was studying and read the scripture (sorry I don't know it by heart) about preaching the gospel to nations for the 2nd coming of Christ to happen/ that His 2nd coming will happen when the gospel has reached all nations. This really bothered me because I believe so many believe that this is close to happening, but how could it be when they aren't even teaching the TRUE gospel from the local pulpit. I know it will happen, don't get me wrong here, but it is going to take people who share the TRUE gospel not their version of the gospel.

Thank you for sharing the video. I am a huge auditory and visual learner. putting the two together really made this topic resonate in my spirit man.

I will get in the world and not just lean on your blog post as you requested. That is a valid request and respect you for making it.

Yearning for Truth,

Nuala

Beyond Zaphon said...

1) why do people feel they have to say the "sinners prayer"?
I believe this is because of “tradition”. This tradition really became popular in our time as a result of Billy Graham. Charles Spurgeon was once asked why he did not lead people in the sinner’s prayer and he said something like: “I don’t want people to have anything they can look back on that they can say they did to contribute to their salvation.”
Mr. Spurgeon is right. When God regenerates someone, something like the sinners prayer will be evident inside them. It may come out like “God be merciful to me a sinner” Lk 18:13
We have mixed and combined the doctrine of assurance and the doctrine of perseverance of the saints (once saved always saved) both of which are true. We can have assurance, but not by looking back saying “I said the sinners prayer...I believed, I repented” We have assurance because we ARE believING and ARE repentING. We persevere because God WILL finish what HE started.
Isn't it true that the only way these truths can be revealed to someone one is through God?
I agree. People are “dead in their sins”. The do not receive the things of the spirit. But God makes us alive “And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses” 1 cor 2:13
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Cor 2:14 People must be “born of the spirit” Jn 3:6. We do well to remember Jn 3:8 “"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."
I understand being frustrated at the false teaching out there! I sincerely believe God saves people who know they need salvation from God. If in the middle of their inadequate teaching they proclaim the gospel 1 Cor 15, I believe the Holy Spirit can use a simple message that Christ died for sinners, was buried and rose again to save. Hopefully they can get fed meat by someone or on some website in order to grow.
I avoid some “neo-gnosticism” which would mean one needs to have a certain amount of special doctrine or knowledge added to the simple gospel message for God to save.
I pray we both continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord. The more we know of God the more beautiful we realize He is.

nualapthatsme said...

Thank you again for taking the time to share what God has put in your heart regarding the "sinner's prayer". It just breaks my heart that so many people are saying it and truly believe they have become born again because they said it. I pray that people will pray a true prayer when they pray their sinners prayer.

Whenever I read the word tradition, I think of the play and movie Fiddler on the Roof. I was raised in the Catholic Church so I know all about tradition. I felt like a robot repeating prayers, standing, kneeling, sitting, and etc. I thank God that He desires new songs, prayers, and etc.

Psalm 96:1
Sing to the LORD a new song; sing to the LORD, all the earth.

Another tradition that irks me is Christmas.
This time of year is usually hard on others in Randy and I's lives because we quit celebrating Christmas the traditional way when we wed in Nov. 2001. We don't put up a tree. We don't buy gifts. We don't endorse Santa. We just simply live the day for the Lord as we would every other day of the year. I think it freaks them out. Each year more friends and family respect our decision and don't make a huge deal out of it and some have even given up some of the worldly Christmas traditions. It was refreshing the first year and has been even more refreshing each following year. We were convicted for celebrating Christmas. It was like something was lifted in me. I could see more truth regarding the lies I was taught in the Catholic Church. I am not saying people shouldn't remember Christ's birth, but it is hard to see the difference in how the world and the local church celebrates Christmas.

The other day this came to me: I would rather be in the palm of God's hand than sitting on Santa's lap. It saddens me that kids are more excited about Santa than about Jesus. I used to be one of those kids. I desire to be an example for children.

Luke 17:1-3 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for hime to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin. So watch yourselves.

This scripture reminds me of how it is our duty to live lives that glorify God and breathe truth. It also made me repent for ever teaching children about the tooth fairy, leprachauns, santa, easter bunny, and etc. I once started writing a book titled "In whom do you want your children to believe?" I still have the beginnings and outline for this book, but the premise is that if we want our children and all children to believe and enter into a relationship with Jesus we have to stop teaching them of things that are make believe. It is one thing to have an imagination, but it is another to teach children to believe in people and give these people power in their lives.

How does your family celebrate Christmas?

Humbly sitting at His feet,

Nuala

Beyond Zaphon said...

No thanks is necessary. As I love nothing more than discussing the things of God, in fact I should thank you!

Anyway, my family celebrates Christmas by worshiping Christ. It is a time of remembering “God with us”. Sometimes I get emotional just thinking about that truth....God really came down and clothed himself with humanity! His purpose was to rescue His bride from their sin and He succeeded....... at such cost.

As for Santa, we don’t pay too much attention to that stuff. Santa has become the god of the “transcendental consumerist” that much of our culture is.

As for decorations: Yes we decorate and have a tree. Obviously we don’t worship it or any of that sort of foolishness, nor to we acknowledge any of the ancient pagan practices; It is just decoration for a festive occassion. I personally love the season and have no problem not getting wrapped up in its idolatries.

I completely understand those like you, who don’t decorate. Many of the Puritan’s of old did the same and my theology is very very close to the Puritan’s. I read some of their books almost weekly.

Their are those, who by my observations are like you, and that they don’t make a big deal out of American traditions for godly, spiritual reasons having to do with conscience:

and then there are those who don’t participate in American traditions because they some how feel they are earning their way to heaven. These people avoid temptation of idolatry and substitute it for the sin of pride and self-righteousness!

Cheers my friend.

Dave

nualapthatsme said...

I commend the way you celebrate Christmas....in truth and light. Thanks be to God for that.

What are the names of the some of the books you have read and that I could comprehend?

I am beyond words at times because I am so blessed that God gave me a heart to know Him. I find myself at times just sitting and thinking about God and telling Him everything I want and desire to know. I don't want to know to rub it in other's faces, but to truly know God in truth.

I know we are to work out our own salvation.

Phil 2: 12-13 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

But, we are also to share the gospel in truth and in love. I've thought about this for many, many, many years and have discussed this with others, but I would like your insight on the topic. How and when are we to share the gospel in truth and in love to others? Have a I shared yes, but as I shared with you I get fumbled up in my words at times when speaking to others about my faith and relationship with Jesus. I pray daily for God to help me share my faith and relationship with Him with confidence, but not prideful.


I did go through the websites you have linked to site as your favorites and saved them so I can read through them. I got to the last one and I must say I am in awe of the gift God gave your wife, Julie. Her artwork is pure and beautiful. I will be looking for her children's book when it comes out.

Shine On,

Nuala

Beyond Zaphon said...

Nuala

I am in accord with you. I love thinking about God and meditating on Him and what he has done. I also must add I simply love God more than I love thinking about God. (I hope that makes sense.)

How do we share the Gospel?

That is a loaded question that many true believers answer in different ways. I would say always begin the Gospel with God!

The Gospel is about God. God is the universe’s creator and sustainer. God is infinitely holy and just. God made humans and simply required love and obedience.

The Gospel is about man’s complete ruin in sin. We are sinners by nature and by choice. The consequence against sinning against an infinite being is naturally an infinite judgement. Eternal divine judgement.

The Gospel is about Christ and his purpose to save sinners. Christ, God in flesh, died on that tree under the wrath of God for sin. Christ was Buried and He rose again for our justification.

Gospel is about the apostalic proclamation to repent (turn from one’s sins) and believe.

You don’t have to be “mighty in scripture and eloquent in words” to share these truths to the lost. You might get fumbled in your words but not near as much as me! I take comfort knowing that the power is in the message not the messenger. It is not about using persuasive words but about the Gospel. “ I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes”

When people reject it they are not rejecting you, but they are rejecting Christ.

As to when... I don’t have a clear answer for that. I try to be sensitive to prompting by the spirit, the situation and the person I am communicating with. There is not a lot of instruction about laymen witnessing the gospel. We just know God uses the church to spread his truth about salvation.

As for books: I would strongly recommend Two

The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul - This book radically changed my view of God and helped me mature.

The Satisfaction of Christ by A.W. Pink - You will come out of this book with a much better view of the atonement. This book was for me the most influential Christian book I have read.

These books aren’t fluff, but they were readable. They will bless and challenge any true believer.

Godspeed
Dave

nualapthatsme said...

You are so right we are to love God more than thinking about Him and meditating on His word. You made total sense about that.

I will be getting these 2 books to read. If I have questions I will ask my husband, you, and 2 others that I totally trust regarding truth. I am excited to get reading these books.

One of the books I read and re-read is Studies in the Sermon on the Mount by D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones. I used it a lot when I was working on my Masters in Christian Education at Regent University. The whole purpose of me getting that master's degree was because I desired to know how and what God wanted me to teach children because He is the one who created them. It was tough, but well worth it. I have many resources that really made me think.

But, I need knew resources and things to grapple with because I believe we must not become stagnant in our relationship with Jesus. So, once again thanks for the names of the books.

You are on target that we must begin with God when sharing the gospel because He is the gospel. Thank you for this reminder. I must always remember He will guide me when sharing with others and that I must ask Him to guide me. Without Him sharing His gospel is pointless and meaningless. I should not rely on my flesh to share the gospel.

I don't know this to be factually true, but from what I've seen and heard women tend to get more ahead of the prompting of the Holy Spirit when it comes reaching out to others and sharing the gospel. Men seem to be more patient and will wait for the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

All Glory to God,

Nuala